VAPEURCHAPELON
Engineer
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 131
|
| Really NEW steam engine models |
 |
|
This is for the case a brass model importer - or better all of them - did
find this site. I want to try to get you interested to make models of
prototype steam locomotives never done before. I think that the only chance
of brass importers to survive at the market are finest detail, quality and -
most important of all - a selection of models no mass producing
manufacturer will ever do. But when I look to the announcements of several
importers I see not much of that. Look to KEY: again a Big Boy, again a H-8,
a PRR I-1, a PRR 6-8-6, a DM&IR 2-10-2. Especially for the first four
engines the alternatives for modellers are all other than rare. Challenger
probably brought the finest 6-8-6 just two years ago. And now? Those members
of Challenger - do you see how the current prices are? Disappointing or not?
Or Global Outlet: announcing an AT&SF 2-10-4. Same with PSC. There are so
many of these models around - mostly United. And these are not bad! It seems
that most importers don't realize how dangerous their future is. Regularly
they bring in one more run of a previously done model. Again and again.
Isn't it stupid? I think it is. Moreover - this policy brings the prices
down. All importers say "very small run" or "very limited" etc., but if
several hundred or even thousand of other models of the same prototype are
around - who really wants to pay nearly 2000 bucks for PRR Q-2 or an AT&SF
2-10-4?
What with a A&WP 2-8-2 class F, with a BAR 4-8-2, or a CP class F-2a 4-4-4 -
Canada's fastest steamer? Never done! Or a C&NW class E-3 4-6-2 - the
heaviest and largest of all Pacifics!? Or with one or more of these very
interesting experimental D&H 2-8-0s and 4-8-0s? Never done! No importer ever
brought in a DT&I 2-8-4, or an IC 2600 class 4-8-2! What with a Frisco 4-6-4
- rebuilt from 4-6-2? And a T&P 4-8-2 class M-2? What beautiful engines?
Never done! But a new Big Boy is very important, of course...!
All these are only a few suggestions. I hope that the remaining importers
awake fast.
Greetings to them
VAPEURCHAPELON |
Thu May 11, 2006 4:39 pm |
|
|
ShopMaster
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Royal Oak, MI |
quote:
a A&WP 2-8-2 class F, with a BAR 4-8-2, or a CP class F-2a 4-4-4... Or a C&NW class E-3 4-6-2 ...l D&H 2-8-0s and 4-8-0s... DT&I 2-8-4, or an IC 2600 class 4-8-2... a Frisco 4-6-4 - rebuilt from 4-6-2... a T&P 4-8-2 class M-2... Never done!
A good point ! It seems to me that the brass importers have been focused on the collecter market for a long time now, with all the limited runs, multiple versions, and detail before operational reliability. I would think that models of steamers that haven't been done before would fit right in to the limited run, collector thing !
What other
un-modeled steam locomotives
(or diesel, or whatever) do our members think should be done by the importers ?
Let's collect a list here and send it on to them. (I will be inviting them here soon)
OTOH has anyone built one of the above mentioned engines from scratch or conversion ?
What do you think ? |
|
Thu May 11, 2006 6:51 pm |
|
|
DarkTerritory
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Clifton, NJ |
|
|
|
The models I am particularly interested in are a Rogers 4-6-0 dating to about 1890, and a Rogers 4-4-0 dating to about 1885-1890. Depending on price I would be willing to purchase several myself of each model.
The 4-6-0 is similar to the well-known Sierra #3 made famous in Petticoat Junction and other TV shows and movies. Major differences are aa straight stack and no running boards on the loco I want made (though it did have fenders over the forward 2 drivers!).
The 4-4-0 is similar in construction to the 4-6-0 listed above, actually using the same steam and sand domes and sharing a boiler of similar shape and size -- but shorter.
Both shared the distinctive Rogers styling of having the steam dome placed far back over the firebox, right up against the front of the cab.
These locomotives were built for the Housatonic Railroad, but followed standard Rogers building practices for the time and could be used for many other railroads as well with few or no minor modifications.
Rogers locomotives were very popular and are very under-represented in both Brass and RTR plastic. I think they eould sell well.
I have photos if anyone is interested in persuing this. Please contact me.
_________________
Craig Bisgeier
Clifton, NJ
Visit the 1892 Housatonic Railroad website at:
http://www.HousatonicRR.com |
|
Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:04 am |
|
|
ShopMaster
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Royal Oak, MI |
Craig,
quote:
Rogers 4-6-0 dating to about 1890, and a Rogers 4-4-0 dating to about 1885-1890... similar to the well-known Sierra #3 made famous in Petticoat Junction and other TV shows and movies... built for the Housatonic Railroad, but followed standard Rogers building practices for the time and could be used for many other railroads as well with few or no minor modifications.
Good suggestion !
How close would these be ?
quote:
Coming from W&R Enterprises are the new Northern Pacific 4-6-0 models in 3 versions! These S-4 class locomotives were some of the last engines to operate on the NP
(from http://www.brasslocomotive.com/ ) |
|
Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:47 pm |
|
|
Brasscrafter
Brakeman
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Toronto, Canada |
|
|
|
Craig,
I'm not sure if the models that I'm thinking of are the same as what your looking for, but Akane (?) came out with an old time loco, several versions (0-6-0, 2-6-0, and a 4-6-0, all with the same boiler and cab), roughly in the 1880's era. Are these the ones that you're looking for?
As far as the conversion question goes, I have a Imperial PRR Q2 4-4-6-4 that I've recently rescued, but it's in rough shape. I've got new motors for it, but I haven't gone through my stask yet to see what details that I'll need yet. My personal quirk is having a duplex or articulated drive loco with only one motor connecting both drives. Single motor drives seem to make the loco unbalanced and prone to derailments, whereas a twin motor setup is simple to do and I admit to loving the slight slipping of the front drive when starting up, just like the real ones! Also better weight distribution, and far more realistic pulling power. The current draw is a drawback, though.
Mark
Craig, I just read the description of your Rogers conversion on your Housatonic Site. The loco that I'm thinking of isn't the right one. Sorry, I thought I had something close for you. |
|
Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:38 pm |
|
|
Brasscrafter
Brakeman
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Toronto, Canada |
|
|
|
As far as the unmodelled loco scene right now, I would say that generally speaking there are very few of the non-modern steam locos represented in brass. I don't know how many times the PRR K4 Pacific has been done, but I haven't heard about a K2 being modelled, even though a few of the real ones lasted until WW11. The same thing goes with both the H9 and H10 Consolidations. Lambert came out with an H6, but it is still the modernized version, not the original. Also, everybody has built either a A5 0-4-0 or the B6sb 0-6-0, but all of the versions I have seen are the post WW1 rebuilds. Where are the A4s, E5s, or the hand fired L1s Mikes? To those people that build these models I say this: Railroads did not pull a switch and modernize or rebuild steam en masse. They rebuilt them as were needed or was convenient. PRR had over 2300 Consolidations on the operational roster throughout the 20's and 30's, and by the time the end of steam came, many of those still around had never been modified. Don't build me another I1sa, give me an I1. Of course, a D14 would go well with a D16 as well. We do not need the most modern version of a particular class every time. The only originals that seem to be built are famous (or infamous) experiments. Since most of these originals of any road didn't last into transition, I guess that's why there isn't as much push to build these types. |
|
Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:55 am |
|
|
nicksail
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Diamond Point NY |
| A Couple More I'd Like To See |
|
|
As a 1930's New York Central modeller, I'd kill to have 3 or 4 H5 Mikes on my layout. The Central converted about 496 2-8-0's to Mikados in the 19-teens and twenties. Where are they in brass? Many of them survived until the end of steam in the early 50's. Also, what about the NYC K3 Pacific? I can get a Bowser K11, grind off the running boards, piping, etc. and re-detail it as a K11, but K3's (and K5's) are something else! I might give up food for a couple of months if these guys could be had in brass!
_________________
So many things to explore,
So little lifetime left! |
|
Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:57 pm |
|
|
erie2937
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 1
|
| NYC H-5 and K-3 |
|
|
Key Imports has done both of these models. You probably don't know it because they are not commonly found for sale, although there are at least a couple of the K-3 engines on dealer lists. But be prepared to shell out over a grand for any of these. |
|
Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:59 am |
|
|
VAPEURCHAPELON
Engineer
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 131
|
nicksail,
on ebay I found a NYC K-3. It is from Alco. The item # is:
250054633958
Don't know if from Korea or Japan, but all my friends owning ALCO models agree that they are of fine quality. I have an ALCO steamer, too, and am completely satisfied with the quality. Of course the detail is not as numerous as today, but the detail which IS there is good! Add only a few things like ashpan, brake rods, sand lines, bell rope and whistle cord - and you will have a very fine model for a fraction of the cost of later brass models. Good luck! |
|
Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:51 pm |
|
|
ShopMaster
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Royal Oak, MI |
Beware of the Alco K-3 !
I rebuillt one of them and had to get an extra frame because the brass was so thin the frame sides bent out of alignment very easily. I laminated an extra side to my frame to strenghten it. And that is just one of that models many problems.
It is an OK import to rebuild, if you are capable and forewarned, but don't get one expecting to have a ready to run, quality brass model !!
Sorry I havn't been around much lately, but I have been having some ugly computer problems, and now I'll be out of town for a few weeks around the holidays...
Happy Holidays to All (at least those that are still visiting here),
_________________
Dave
http://daveayers.com/Modeling/index.html |
|
Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:34 pm |
|
|
VAPEURCHAPELON
Engineer
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 131
|
nicksail,
you also asked for a NYC H-5 Mike. Here it is:
ebay item# 190070539299
It is from SKI! This is - for many - the best quality Korean Builder! (I don't know because I don't have an SKI model)
The seller mazz1133 is the ebay user name of Mr. Mazzetti from the well known brass dealer "The Caboose" in Wolcott. During the last time mazz1133 has used unbelievably low reserve prices for fine models! Perhaps you may have luck.
Greetings from
VAPEURCHAPELON |
|
Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:04 pm |
|
|
VAPEURCHAPELON
Engineer
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 131
|
I have to correct one little - but painfullly wrong - statement: my entry post on this topic states that a CP class F-2a 4-4-4 has never been done in H0 brass. THIS IS NOT CORRECT! Please have a look to ebay auction number
260090870461
- there you will see exactly that engine! Built by WooYang and imported by TOTEM, it brought some unbelievable 2000$! It must be rare since I NEVER did see it since my about 5 year www activity and nearly 3 year ebay membership - and the Brown book didn't list it - that's why I supposed it has never been built.
But this does not effect the general statement. Many MANY other beautyful and/ or important engines have not been imported to date.[/u] |
|
Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:30 pm |
|
|
Steve Wysowski
Foreman
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Ct |
| 4-4-0's |
|
|
Craig, United made some great 4-4-0's that I have re-motored, re-geared, painted and slightly modified to represent Rogers locos for 1890's.I have 3. I have them painted Russia Iron and I have a few pictured on this site. I also have 2 FED 4-4-0's that are very suitable for the era as well.I am not selling them but these models do occasionally appear on E Bay. 
Steve
_________________
Steve Wysowski |
|
Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:59 am |
|
|
franklinloco
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Mid-Ohio |
| Re: A Couple More I'd Like To See |
|
|
In 1999 Key imported numerous versions (8 in all) of the NYC K-3 pacifics. These broke new ground in detail for Key, and included such items as photo-etched wood cab roof, backhead specific to hand fired and stoker equipped locos, and complete smoke box interior with exhaust nozzle and super heater piping. They have a wonderful lighting circuit that included illumination of the tender coal bunker from a bulb at the back of the cab. There was only one pre-1936 version produced as K-3d #3391, and it is rumored that only 6 of this version were built. I have a photo of #3391, but it was taken by another party and I don't want to infringe on any copyright by posting it here.
These were very nice models, as well they should be for what it cost to get one. $1500 was the original suggested retail. I managed to get mine for a couple hundred less in 2003. There was a 3391 for sale at a well known dealer as late as 2004, and I passed on it because I model a later era. I wish now that I would have bought it, but we are all more clever after the fact. As a 1930s modeler the #3391 is the version you should look for, and my advice is should you find one at any price, buy it. It may be a once in a lifetime opportunity.
quote:
Originally posted by nicksail
As a 1930's New York Central modeller, I'd kill to have 3 or 4 H5 Mikes on my layout. The Central converted about 496 2-8-0's to Mikados in the 19-teens and twenties. Where are they in brass? Many of them survived until the end of steam in the early 50's. Also, what about the NYC K3 Pacific? I can get a Bowser K11, grind off the running boards, piping, etc. and re-detail it as a K11, but K3's (and K5's) are something else! I might give up food for a couple of months if these guys could be had in brass!
[img][/img][img][/img] |
|
Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:58 am |
|
|
franklinloco
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Mid-Ohio |
|
|
|
[quote="ShopMaster
What other
un-modeled steam locomotives
(or diesel, or whatever) do our members think should be done by the importers ?
Let's collect a list here and send it on to them. (I will be inviting them here soon)
OTOH has anyone built one of the above mentioned engines from scratch or conversion ?
What do you think ?[/quote]
As for locomotive models not previously produced in brass, I would like to see some Missouri Pacific mountains. MoPac operated a large fleet of 4-8-2s in 4 different classes, one of which was an extensive rebuild of the USRA light original. So it could be said they had 5 classes of this wheel arrangement, and other than the USRA originals, they have been largely ignored by the importers. I think MoPac Pacifics should be explored as well even though two have been done, albeit rendered poorly.
There are many others that could be produced. Those that model southern railroads like FEC, SAL, and KCS could fill in a lot of blanks. The importers have produced just a handfull of locomotives for these roads combined. Yet they continue to churn out the same road number of the same version of same locomotive time and time again. One heck of a way to run a railroad!
I'll step down from my soapbox now.....Jim J. |
|
Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:17 am |
|
|
 
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours. The time now is Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:56 pm
|
|
|
|
| |
